dikayasobaka

Eh... is it arguing for the sake of argument? :) I do not believe ever mentioning in my comments that the beauty would safe the world or non-violent demonstration is our only hope. Read my comments more carefully, pls. I do, however, applaud people who are willing to risk their lives to protect civilians during armed conflicts or wars.
But back to your scenario, which, for the record, i support. What, in your point of view, is the definition of the victory in such situation?

From:

ygam.livejournal.com

Regarding the Israeli-Arab conflict, please read this Etgar Keret story in Russian translation: one translation, another translation. I can't say anything else.

From:

I don't see how it is the answer to my question about the victory... But thank you, it is a good story.
As to "I can't say anything else." Well, it is quite upsetting actually. In every conflict one should hear from both sides. Because there are also stories like this, for instance. Let's not picture the situation as black and white one.

From:

There are many stories in there, of course.

What I find unacceptable in Israel's actions is that Palestinians were never given equal rights within whatever borders Israel drew for itself. What I find unacceptable in the actions of the other side is, obviously, terrorism and (on the part of some groups) calls for extermination of Israel and Jews which pretty much meant to say that peace was not on their agenda.

From:

What was that?.. e.. ППКС!

From:

Гав!!!

(deleted comment)

From:

Well, let's even take the "green line". Do Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as the Jewish ones?

In fact, the status of all non-Jews is significantly underprivilleged.

From:

Do they really desire harmony and peace? I am not so sure anymore. They wouldn't draw borders, most of the time,

I don't understand this charge.

Well, let's even take the "green line". Do Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as the Jewish ones?

Not "even". It's the only context in which equal rights make sense.
So, what rights do Arab citizens not have?

In fact, the status of all non-Jews is significantly underprivilleged.

Can you elaborate?

From:

What I find unacceptable in Israel's actions is that Palestinians were never given equal rights within whatever borders Israel drew for itself.

What borders and what rights could you possibly be talking about?

From:

As activists often say with regards to Israel, “remove your boot from their throat, and you may find that the Palestinians are very reasonable people.” (http://www.habiba.org/palestine.html#Anchor-Realities)

This is a complete and utter bullshit as 13 years of disillusionment have proven. Israel has "taken its boot from their throat" 10-13 years ago, placing about 95% of them under a complete control of Palestinian Authority.
What nice and reasonable people they turned out to be! As an immediate result of this so called peace process they started blowing themselves up in Israeli buses and their official school curricula included extolling terrorists, encouraging children to follow their footsteps and teaching them that Israel has no right to exist.

From:

It is true that starting with the Oslo Accords a large majority of Palestinians ended up under PA. But it was still Israel in control of the roads, border checkpoints, water and many other resources. Let's also not forget about places like Hebron where the Arab population has always been subjected to curfews for the benefit of the tiny Jewish minority.

But that's not the main thing here. The peace process failed, once again. But let us look at what Israel is really doing (I mean the ruling elite)? Do they really desire harmony and peace? I am not so sure anymore. They wouldn't draw borders, most of the time, and when they do they create conditions of ethnic inequality within those borders. Israeli Arab citizens still don't have equal rights. Is there a better pretext for conflict?

From:

But it was still Israel in control of the roads, border checkpoints, water and many other resources.

But had been like that for the previous 25 years. The change was only in direction or more freedom and by leaps and bounds: they governed their own affairs, got their police, their prisons, their schools with their uncontrolled curricula, their TV and so on. Don't you think, that according to the formula quoted above (not to mention according to both the letter and the spirit of the signed agreements) they must have become much nicer and more peaceful towards Israel? How did it happen that the following years have become the bloodiest as far as terror victims? How did it happen that PA encouraged their children to become terrorists and taught them them Israel shouldn't exist?
Don't you see that the above formula is at least false if not just backwards?

Do they really desire harmony and peace? I am not so sure anymore. They wouldn't draw borders, most of the time

I don't understand this charge. Do you expect Israel to create the border unilaterally? Coincidentally, this idea is really gaining momentum recently but it's not really very popular with the Palestinians.

and when they do they create conditions of ethnic inequality within those borders.

"When they do" sounds pretty funny, since the green line was established pretty much at the time of Israel's creation. Let's discuss the inequality in a separate thread.

Is there a better pretext for conflict?

Whatever grievances Israeli Arab citizens have is not pretext to the conflict, or a very small factor in it. It's the status of the disputed territories and the non-citizen population there which is the main sticking point. I wonder what solution for them you envision and what in your opinion Israel should have done and is not doing to achieve it.

From:

That I don't have time to respond in full. What I believe Israel should do is
1) draw a border;
2) declare everyone residing within that border a citizen;
3) pass a constitution guaranteeing all citizens equal rights and responsibilities.

That's my idea, in short.

From:

1) draw a border;

Unilaterally? Do you realize that one of the main sticking points is where this border is going to be and who is going to recognize it?
So setting it up unilaterally doesn't really solve the conflict, does it?

2) declare everyone residing within that border a citizen;

That's a given. If that wasn't the necessary condition, the border would long encompass everything Israel controls.

3) pass a constitution guaranteeing all citizens equal rights and responsibilities.

Israel has basic laws that do that. That has little to do with the conflict anyway.

From:

Just in case it is not completely clear, I am not talking about Hamas not recognizing Israel's right to exist, I am talking about this doctrine being pushed into children's heads by schools, official TV and newspapers in Arafat's PA from the onset of so called peace process and as a direct result of it.

From:

phobos-il.livejournal.com

Бред. Прикажут вообще не реагировать - отойти на 10 метров подальше и все. В крайнем случае какой-нибудь офицер пальнет в воздух сам.
Камень до сих пор не считается угрозой для жизни. Огонь на поражение боевыми патронами мог бы быть открыт в случае, если бы за детьми прятались террористы с оружием или если помимо камней в солдат также летели коктейли Молотова.

From:

Это так по правилам. Я легко могу себе представить и ситуацию, в которой у мужика сдали нервы и он на правила решил забить.

From:

ygam.livejournal.com

Мне этот рассказ показался неправдоподобным, и я дал ссылку на него в сообществе

meast_ru. Можете почитать комментарии.

From:

Рассказ, который привели Вы в подтверждение своей позиции, является литературным произведением. Тем ни мение, Вы можете строить на его основании свою политическую позицию и "can't say anything else".
Тем ни менее, спасибо, что разместили ссылку. I believe the issue is serious enough to publicise it. Hopefully more people would get interested to hear from the other side of the conflict. It seems only logical to me to do so in order to take any political or emotional stand.

From:

Well, there are many ways to support civilians, in time of war or otherwise. Stopping an army performing an operation whose objective may not even be clear to you is not necessarily one of them. Also note that the ISM'ers are not known to ride Israeli buses in an attempt to serve as a human shield for Israeli civilians.

From:

They are not known for protecting terrorists either. I don't understand why is it such a questionable humanitarian efford, when a citizen of a different country dies protecting some children on the streets?
Boris, I am really having hard time understanding what exactly you are trying to say. That helping people in need is bad and useless? Or that ISM is a right hand of HAMAS?

From:

I really don't know what happened there. It is pretty clear that the soldier who shot Hurndall did so intentionally; whether it was a case of mistaken identity or he wanted to kill him specifically, or as a member of ISM with which the IDF soldiers could very well have been frustrated - I don't know. Yes, this could be a war crime, likely is. A routine war crime that most armies commit during most wars.

Now, if you read the same story again you are gonna' notice that the ISM was planning to set up a tent that would block Israeli armor from traveling a certain road. Don't you think that sort of thing is - in a direct military sense - quite advantageous to the other side?

And no, ISM is not "right hand of HAMAS"; but that doesn't mean that what ISM does could not be of immediate use to HAMAS - in the military, not ideological sense.

From: