(no subject)

[dikayasobaka]

Раскрываем тему дальше.

Роберт Фиск написал интересную статью про политкорректность в исполнении влиятельных еврейских групп на Западе. В принципе, вариант примерно тот же, что и в любом ином исполнении - но масштабы довольно внушительные.

Вот она, с моими комментариями:
The erosion of free speech (англ.)

Comments

Nice source

[gera.livejournal.com]

As activists often say with regards to Israel, “remove your boot from their throat, and you may find that the Palestinians are very reasonable people.” (http://www.habiba.org/palestine.html#Anchor-Realities)

This is a complete and utter bullshit as 13 years of disillusionment have proven. Israel has "taken its boot from their throat" 10-13 years ago, placing about 95% of them under a complete control of Palestinian Authority.
What nice and reasonable people they turned out to be! As an immediate result of this so called peace process they started blowing themselves up in Israeli buses and their official school curricula included extolling terrorists, encouraging children to follow their footsteps and teaching them that Israel has no right to exist.

Re: Nice source

[dikayasobaka.livejournal.com]

It is true that starting with the Oslo Accords a large majority of Palestinians ended up under PA. But it was still Israel in control of the roads, border checkpoints, water and many other resources. Let's also not forget about places like Hebron where the Arab population has always been subjected to curfews for the benefit of the tiny Jewish minority.

But that's not the main thing here. The peace process failed, once again. But let us look at what Israel is really doing (I mean the ruling elite)? Do they really desire harmony and peace? I am not so sure anymore. They wouldn't draw borders, most of the time, and when they do they create conditions of ethnic inequality within those borders. Israeli Arab citizens still don't have equal rights. Is there a better pretext for conflict?

Re: Nice source

[gera.livejournal.com]

But it was still Israel in control of the roads, border checkpoints, water and many other resources.

But had been like that for the previous 25 years. The change was only in direction or more freedom and by leaps and bounds: they governed their own affairs, got their police, their prisons, their schools with their uncontrolled curricula, their TV and so on. Don't you think, that according to the formula quoted above (not to mention according to both the letter and the spirit of the signed agreements) they must have become much nicer and more peaceful towards Israel? How did it happen that the following years have become the bloodiest as far as terror victims? How did it happen that PA encouraged their children to become terrorists and taught them them Israel shouldn't exist?
Don't you see that the above formula is at least false if not just backwards?

Do they really desire harmony and peace? I am not so sure anymore. They wouldn't draw borders, most of the time

I don't understand this charge. Do you expect Israel to create the border unilaterally? Coincidentally, this idea is really gaining momentum recently but it's not really very popular with the Palestinians.

and when they do they create conditions of ethnic inequality within those borders.

"When they do" sounds pretty funny, since the green line was established pretty much at the time of Israel's creation. Let's discuss the inequality in a separate thread.

Is there a better pretext for conflict?

Whatever grievances Israeli Arab citizens have is not pretext to the conflict, or a very small factor in it. It's the status of the disputed territories and the non-citizen population there which is the main sticking point. I wonder what solution for them you envision and what in your opinion Israel should have done and is not doing to achieve it.

Sorry...

[dikayasobaka.livejournal.com]

That I don't have time to respond in full. What I believe Israel should do is
1) draw a border;
2) declare everyone residing within that border a citizen;
3) pass a constitution guaranteeing all citizens equal rights and responsibilities.

That's my idea, in short.

Re: Sorry...

[gera.livejournal.com]

1) draw a border;

Unilaterally? Do you realize that one of the main sticking points is where this border is going to be and who is going to recognize it?
So setting it up unilaterally doesn't really solve the conflict, does it?

2) declare everyone residing within that border a citizen;

That's a given. If that wasn't the necessary condition, the border would long encompass everything Israel controls.

3) pass a constitution guaranteeing all citizens equal rights and responsibilities.

Israel has basic laws that do that. That has little to do with the conflict anyway.